First, another thank you to all, who responded to my first question on $$$ Range for BP Settlements. Although, these are sensitive, private issues, many of us are going through this ordeal and many others, of us, are debating going down this path. Sure, gag orders are in place, for many of you but please respond Anon.There are few answers to these types of questions on the Internet and Awareness does begin at home, so please respond and educate,guide,support and help your BP family as we go through these gut wrenching, soul searching times.Here goes:
Were you offered a settlement, well before the trial date or close to the trial date?
Was more than one settlement offered?
Did you accept either settlement?If so, how much?
If not, did you win at trial? How much?
Did you refuse settlements? If so, how much was offered? Did you go on to loose at trial?
Are there two settlements or trial verdicts, one for the injured child and another for the parents?
Did you have a so called "life planner" involved in your case? If so, how close was his bottom line figure compared to the final settlement or trial verdict amount?
In all these questions, please give $$ amounts both before total expenses and after $$ total expenses.
This is such a terrible experience. I give credit to all you, that have been through it before. I am ready to quit the entire process as I feel that my son will not get anything or if he wins, it appears that it will be a small amount, based on the answers to my prior post. Hopefully, this post will shed new light and encourage me.
Once again, your responses will be greatly appreciated. If others have legal questions, please initiate a post so that this topic can be finally " out of the closet" and nitty gritty legal awareness can be shared,for the sake of all our injured children, whose parents take this path. Thank you, from the bottom of my heart.
Settlement vs Trial
Re: Settlement vs Trial
Here it goes. Remember that our choice to not settle was based upon loosing our medical coverage for Michael's future arm issues. Not to mention they just infuriated me by the end which made winning extremely gratifing.
1. No settlement was offered well before the trial. Settlement was offered the day of the trial.
2. Settlements were offered through out the trial. 1st offer was for 250,000.00 and we declined. As the trial progressed (in our favor)their figure grew, it wasn't until the jury was taking a very long time did they agree to our original figure of 500,000.00 At that point it became a matter of principal to take it to a verdict. If you do win and a verdict is made your child will earn interest on the money from the moment of fileing to the day it ends in court. You will not get that if you settle before a verdict. Once we had a verdict we still had a chance to settle and put it into a structure(keeping our interest) or take it to the appeals court were we will wait a year or more for our childs money. You run the risk of having to do it all again if the apeals court finds anything questionable. You need to understand that what you base your choices on during the trial are unique to each individual case. If your lawfirm is worth their money, they will have every expert wittnesses there to support your case in every avenue of your childs life. To tell you what happened at mine and expect it to happen at yours is not realistic. For me to say do this and this and you anticipate winning is not true either. There have unfortunatley been many posts where the trial was going strong and the facts were there and the parents still losts. All you can do is present the case, give it your best shot and put it all in the hands of the jury. There is no magic bullet and nobody can make up your mind for you. Personally, I would much rather give birth than to ever go through that roller coaster ride again, but if I had to I would. In the end, I am glad I did it for my son and for my own peace of mind.
Our case was 5.5 years old. We went to trial and it lasted two weeks. We won 1,050,000.00 After court costs and attorney fees Michael took home 760,000.00 We thought it was 660,000.00, but their accountant forgot to add 100,000.00 from interest.
As far as two lawsiuts? Yes, there was mine and there was my sons. I lost mine somewhere in the shuffle. The other side had it thrown out because he said what I did for my son was based on a parents obligation and my lawyer didn't want to come across as being money hungry so we didn't fight it. You can fight for yours, but I didn't. I wish I did. Did that choice effect My sons figure amount? I'll never know. In the end it all worked out and my payoff is knowing we won, that my son is taken care of for the rest of his life. That he will not HAVE TO work in something he hates because of his limitations. That to me is worth giving up my side of the lawsuit. Good luck. I hope this helped.
Patty
1. No settlement was offered well before the trial. Settlement was offered the day of the trial.
2. Settlements were offered through out the trial. 1st offer was for 250,000.00 and we declined. As the trial progressed (in our favor)their figure grew, it wasn't until the jury was taking a very long time did they agree to our original figure of 500,000.00 At that point it became a matter of principal to take it to a verdict. If you do win and a verdict is made your child will earn interest on the money from the moment of fileing to the day it ends in court. You will not get that if you settle before a verdict. Once we had a verdict we still had a chance to settle and put it into a structure(keeping our interest) or take it to the appeals court were we will wait a year or more for our childs money. You run the risk of having to do it all again if the apeals court finds anything questionable. You need to understand that what you base your choices on during the trial are unique to each individual case. If your lawfirm is worth their money, they will have every expert wittnesses there to support your case in every avenue of your childs life. To tell you what happened at mine and expect it to happen at yours is not realistic. For me to say do this and this and you anticipate winning is not true either. There have unfortunatley been many posts where the trial was going strong and the facts were there and the parents still losts. All you can do is present the case, give it your best shot and put it all in the hands of the jury. There is no magic bullet and nobody can make up your mind for you. Personally, I would much rather give birth than to ever go through that roller coaster ride again, but if I had to I would. In the end, I am glad I did it for my son and for my own peace of mind.
Our case was 5.5 years old. We went to trial and it lasted two weeks. We won 1,050,000.00 After court costs and attorney fees Michael took home 760,000.00 We thought it was 660,000.00, but their accountant forgot to add 100,000.00 from interest.
As far as two lawsiuts? Yes, there was mine and there was my sons. I lost mine somewhere in the shuffle. The other side had it thrown out because he said what I did for my son was based on a parents obligation and my lawyer didn't want to come across as being money hungry so we didn't fight it. You can fight for yours, but I didn't. I wish I did. Did that choice effect My sons figure amount? I'll never know. In the end it all worked out and my payoff is knowing we won, that my son is taken care of for the rest of his life. That he will not HAVE TO work in something he hates because of his limitations. That to me is worth giving up my side of the lawsuit. Good luck. I hope this helped.
Patty
Re: Settlement vs Trial
Dear Null:
Just a note on being "anon" during the legal process. I posted with my name at all times, and it did not hurt my outcome (legally speaking). That being said, I cannot post our actual numbers, but I can post what is being offered in our particular area.
As for our case: our doctor screwed up so many times and in so many places before, during and after the delivery that it was widely accepted that we would not go to trial. Hence, we were offered a settlement about 3 1/2 years into the process.
They started at one number and moved up from there. This did not include the subrogation negotiation with the insurance company that took place later on. We set aside money from the settlement number (not in actuality) to give to the insurance company.
In our case, we accepted the last number they gave us.
Now, where I live, most bpi settlements are in the $500 to $750 thousand dollar range. This is just what is going on.
At trial: any verdict that is upwards of $1mil, is appealled by the insurance company as "excessive." And, sadly enough, they are being reduced to the $500-$750 thousand dollar range.
As for the parents: most of the time they only give you for money spent out of pocket. We recieved slightly more than this because we thought we were going to have surgery right after the settlement (we didn't). My understanding of NYState is that they are not particularly giving towards the parents.
As for a life planner...we trusted our lawyer and their numbers were very good. We are invested only with A+++ investements. Our lawyer sent the numbers out to a couple of firms that they use for this. We took the higher numbers but everything is low-risk.
Our expenses were very low. A couple of reasons: we did not need to depose any of the TCH docs...we didn't get that far, the surgical reports said it all. We were able to go to local docs for a lot of stuff (no travel expenses).
Just a note on settlement figures. In the old days, they would set up a settlement whereby the child would recieve money until they were about 60 years old (some lawyers still push this). They would get a monthly check forever! Now this is a good idea if you have a child who will need "care" in adulthood. However, most of our children will be able to move forward in life and hold jobs...so this does not make a lot of sense. EXCEPT!! that it allows a lawyer to tell you that a $500,000 settlement is worth $10million to your child. Or some other huge number.
Here is how we are worked out, and this is pretty standard: we set aside a chunk for "future medical expenses." Because we agreed to negotiate with our insurance company, they have to pay for surgeries--otherwise they would not have to. So the medical expenses are therapies that are not included (water, horsebackriding, ot & pt past the max allowed on plan, etc). It can also be used for "experimental" stuff that the insurance company doesn't want to pay for. If we do not use the money, it becomes hers when she hits 18 years old. It is in FDIC insured banks. We can only get it with a court order.
She gets chunks at 18, 19, 20, 21 (college), 25, 30. This is it. She also gets monthly amounts thru the college years. God help me. To be so young with money at hand.... it is scary.
We have been interviewing money managers. We will start taking her with us to talk to them when she is about 14 years old. We want her to be comfortable with this person so they can make decisions together. This way, if she is being rebellious, she can talk to someone other than her Dad and I. We have changed our wills to appoint a financial guardian for her in case something happens to us. Ultimately, we will tell her siblings that she has this money. Until the age of 18, if something happens to her we are her default beneficiaries...when she turns 18 she will have to sign a will making her siblings her beneficiaries. I know some of this sounds goulish, but you must think about these things as well. I don't want her siblings thinking that they don't have to work because she will take care of them or that she should buy them a car... or that they get angry with us because of it. It is a difficult issue to discuss and we will be treading carefully over it.
I hope this helps in some way. I am sorry that I can't be more forthcoming with my own numbers...but perhaps the general info will still be helpful.
claudia
Just a note on being "anon" during the legal process. I posted with my name at all times, and it did not hurt my outcome (legally speaking). That being said, I cannot post our actual numbers, but I can post what is being offered in our particular area.
As for our case: our doctor screwed up so many times and in so many places before, during and after the delivery that it was widely accepted that we would not go to trial. Hence, we were offered a settlement about 3 1/2 years into the process.
They started at one number and moved up from there. This did not include the subrogation negotiation with the insurance company that took place later on. We set aside money from the settlement number (not in actuality) to give to the insurance company.
In our case, we accepted the last number they gave us.
Now, where I live, most bpi settlements are in the $500 to $750 thousand dollar range. This is just what is going on.
At trial: any verdict that is upwards of $1mil, is appealled by the insurance company as "excessive." And, sadly enough, they are being reduced to the $500-$750 thousand dollar range.
As for the parents: most of the time they only give you for money spent out of pocket. We recieved slightly more than this because we thought we were going to have surgery right after the settlement (we didn't). My understanding of NYState is that they are not particularly giving towards the parents.
As for a life planner...we trusted our lawyer and their numbers were very good. We are invested only with A+++ investements. Our lawyer sent the numbers out to a couple of firms that they use for this. We took the higher numbers but everything is low-risk.
Our expenses were very low. A couple of reasons: we did not need to depose any of the TCH docs...we didn't get that far, the surgical reports said it all. We were able to go to local docs for a lot of stuff (no travel expenses).
Just a note on settlement figures. In the old days, they would set up a settlement whereby the child would recieve money until they were about 60 years old (some lawyers still push this). They would get a monthly check forever! Now this is a good idea if you have a child who will need "care" in adulthood. However, most of our children will be able to move forward in life and hold jobs...so this does not make a lot of sense. EXCEPT!! that it allows a lawyer to tell you that a $500,000 settlement is worth $10million to your child. Or some other huge number.
Here is how we are worked out, and this is pretty standard: we set aside a chunk for "future medical expenses." Because we agreed to negotiate with our insurance company, they have to pay for surgeries--otherwise they would not have to. So the medical expenses are therapies that are not included (water, horsebackriding, ot & pt past the max allowed on plan, etc). It can also be used for "experimental" stuff that the insurance company doesn't want to pay for. If we do not use the money, it becomes hers when she hits 18 years old. It is in FDIC insured banks. We can only get it with a court order.
She gets chunks at 18, 19, 20, 21 (college), 25, 30. This is it. She also gets monthly amounts thru the college years. God help me. To be so young with money at hand.... it is scary.
We have been interviewing money managers. We will start taking her with us to talk to them when she is about 14 years old. We want her to be comfortable with this person so they can make decisions together. This way, if she is being rebellious, she can talk to someone other than her Dad and I. We have changed our wills to appoint a financial guardian for her in case something happens to us. Ultimately, we will tell her siblings that she has this money. Until the age of 18, if something happens to her we are her default beneficiaries...when she turns 18 she will have to sign a will making her siblings her beneficiaries. I know some of this sounds goulish, but you must think about these things as well. I don't want her siblings thinking that they don't have to work because she will take care of them or that she should buy them a car... or that they get angry with us because of it. It is a difficult issue to discuss and we will be treading carefully over it.
I hope this helps in some way. I am sorry that I can't be more forthcoming with my own numbers...but perhaps the general info will still be helpful.
claudia
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Re: Settlement vs Trial
Could Claudia or others help me understand why some feel they cannot share numbers? If you post anon/guest then are we still held to not speaking of it? Like, if some of us are told not to disclose exact figures, but if we are posting anon, without any identity revealed or too much info., then I am confused what the problem would be?
I would really appreciate gaining a better understanding of how all this can work. Thanks!
Claudia said she had no problem posting with her name but for some of us we would possibly be jeopardizing our children's cases. In our case we have been questioned about other bpi parents we have talked to, especially early on. In depositions they even asked for names, first and last. We were asked how we found out and who we spoke to from an organized bpi support group in our state. We were asked if we participated on a message board, etc., etc., etc. Day planners, medical notes, journals, etc. were all collected.
Many of us that have gone through this or are currently going through this know that they can try to dig up anything and everything they possibly can. I feel MUCH more comfortable posting as guest since I know they can come to these boards just like anyone else. I am NOT going to give them any information, no matter how small, that they can twist and turn around and find a way to use against me. I just wanted to share....because although some have much more positive experiences, I would always be on the safe side and protect my child first.
I would really appreciate gaining a better understanding of how all this can work. Thanks!
Claudia said she had no problem posting with her name but for some of us we would possibly be jeopardizing our children's cases. In our case we have been questioned about other bpi parents we have talked to, especially early on. In depositions they even asked for names, first and last. We were asked how we found out and who we spoke to from an organized bpi support group in our state. We were asked if we participated on a message board, etc., etc., etc. Day planners, medical notes, journals, etc. were all collected.
Many of us that have gone through this or are currently going through this know that they can try to dig up anything and everything they possibly can. I feel MUCH more comfortable posting as guest since I know they can come to these boards just like anyone else. I am NOT going to give them any information, no matter how small, that they can twist and turn around and find a way to use against me. I just wanted to share....because although some have much more positive experiences, I would always be on the safe side and protect my child first.
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Re: Settlement vs Trial
I am an attorney, and over the years, my law firm has represented many children with obstetric brachial plexus injuries.
Claudia, the reason why many parents cannot discuss what they settled their cases for is because a settlement is a contractual transaction, and upon its completion, all the parties to the settlement agree to specific terms of the settlement, and they sign a contract memorializing those terms.
Usually, settlements in medical malpractice cases include a confidentiality clause that permits you to discuss the settlement with other family members, other attorneys, financial planners, or tax consultants, but does not permit you to disclose it over open air waves. Most of my clients have no problem with this because people consider their personal finances to be private in any event.
If I could just add an attorney's thoughts to the discussion about settlement versus trial. All of us in my law firm have dedicated our careers to being medical malpractice trial lawyers. We love taking on the insurance industry and being in the court room, fighting it out with them. And we are exceptionally good at it.
But especially in a child's lawsuit, it's not about me, and with all due respect to all of you loving, sacrificing and devoted parents, it's not about you, either. It's about these babies. And these babies in particular are going to be faced with challenges in their lives that I have never faced, and the majority of other children have never faced. So in my law firm, we are very conservative in recommending a settlement on behalf of a child, rather than a trial on behalf of a child. I think that most lawyers are especially deliberate where there is money being offered in a case for a little one.
There was an article in this week's Cleveland Plain Dealer about the "most comprehensive study known in Ohio" concerning jury verdicts. The study looked at all jury trials in Stark County (Canton) between 1993 and 2003. The medical profession won 64 of 84 medical malpractice trials, and juries awarded more than $1million in only 4 cases in 10 years. Those are 1 in 4 odds for the plaintiffs. You should be fully aware of those odds. Would you gamble $250,000 that belongs to your child for 1 in 4 odds? Some would, but most wouldn't. And how do juries find in favor of a doctor and against a toddler? As many of you on this board know, they do, and it is heart-wrenching.
What I always think of in talking about settlement with a client is: when you discuss the lawsuit with your child when he or she is an adult, would you rather tell them, "we took x sum of money when you were 3 years old and invested it wisely for you over 15 or 20 years," or, "we gambled x sum of money when you were 3 years old and lost." If there is no settlement offer before your trial, then a trial is an easy decision. If there is money on the table when your case goes to trial, then that money is yours to lose. A trial is a gamble, pure and simple. And being a parent myself, I am not inclined to take risks where my children are concerned.
All settlements or trials are individual to the case, to the county venue, to the family and their lawyers. If a lawyer recommends settlement over trial or vice versa, it's because it's your lawyer's job to weigh the risks and make a professional recommendation to you. No one should ever feel guilty about the choices they make, because no amount of money will compensate you for what you have been through.
Finally, I work regularly with the doctors at TCH, and at other bpi centers in the country, with other trial lawyers who represent injured children and their families, and with many of you. All of us want the best for these children, and I continue to believe that while the work we do is sometimes difficult, it is always right.
Claudia, the reason why many parents cannot discuss what they settled their cases for is because a settlement is a contractual transaction, and upon its completion, all the parties to the settlement agree to specific terms of the settlement, and they sign a contract memorializing those terms.
Usually, settlements in medical malpractice cases include a confidentiality clause that permits you to discuss the settlement with other family members, other attorneys, financial planners, or tax consultants, but does not permit you to disclose it over open air waves. Most of my clients have no problem with this because people consider their personal finances to be private in any event.
If I could just add an attorney's thoughts to the discussion about settlement versus trial. All of us in my law firm have dedicated our careers to being medical malpractice trial lawyers. We love taking on the insurance industry and being in the court room, fighting it out with them. And we are exceptionally good at it.
But especially in a child's lawsuit, it's not about me, and with all due respect to all of you loving, sacrificing and devoted parents, it's not about you, either. It's about these babies. And these babies in particular are going to be faced with challenges in their lives that I have never faced, and the majority of other children have never faced. So in my law firm, we are very conservative in recommending a settlement on behalf of a child, rather than a trial on behalf of a child. I think that most lawyers are especially deliberate where there is money being offered in a case for a little one.
There was an article in this week's Cleveland Plain Dealer about the "most comprehensive study known in Ohio" concerning jury verdicts. The study looked at all jury trials in Stark County (Canton) between 1993 and 2003. The medical profession won 64 of 84 medical malpractice trials, and juries awarded more than $1million in only 4 cases in 10 years. Those are 1 in 4 odds for the plaintiffs. You should be fully aware of those odds. Would you gamble $250,000 that belongs to your child for 1 in 4 odds? Some would, but most wouldn't. And how do juries find in favor of a doctor and against a toddler? As many of you on this board know, they do, and it is heart-wrenching.
What I always think of in talking about settlement with a client is: when you discuss the lawsuit with your child when he or she is an adult, would you rather tell them, "we took x sum of money when you were 3 years old and invested it wisely for you over 15 or 20 years," or, "we gambled x sum of money when you were 3 years old and lost." If there is no settlement offer before your trial, then a trial is an easy decision. If there is money on the table when your case goes to trial, then that money is yours to lose. A trial is a gamble, pure and simple. And being a parent myself, I am not inclined to take risks where my children are concerned.
All settlements or trials are individual to the case, to the county venue, to the family and their lawyers. If a lawyer recommends settlement over trial or vice versa, it's because it's your lawyer's job to weigh the risks and make a professional recommendation to you. No one should ever feel guilty about the choices they make, because no amount of money will compensate you for what you have been through.
Finally, I work regularly with the doctors at TCH, and at other bpi centers in the country, with other trial lawyers who represent injured children and their families, and with many of you. All of us want the best for these children, and I continue to believe that while the work we do is sometimes difficult, it is always right.
Re: Settlement vs Trial
Dear Guest:
I and others can't post numbers because I agreed not to. As part of my settlement agreement I agreed not to disclose the numbers, I agreed not to "advertise" my negative experience with my doctor, and my doctor did not admit any fault.
I didn't understand the "advertise" thing, as I was sure I would be hit with the "gag" order. Apparently, it was understood by all parties that I am involved with organizations like this one and that I have never used my doctor's name. The advertise thing means I can talk in public about my experiences but I can't ever mention the doctor's name. Again, I never would.
Not admitting fault is also standard, though difficult to read. It is a trade off, he gets to "say" he didn't do anything wrong, and Juliana gets to win the lawsuit. I think he knows he did a lot wrong and he has to deal with that however he does. Or maybe he is so arrogant that he thinks I am wrong. Whatever.
So, in an odd turn of events, I posted here under my name while we were suing, but I can't give you the specifics of our lawsuit.
I agree that this is a touchy issue, but I think it is good to bring some of it out in the forefront. I think negotiating the legal world is, in its own way, as difficult as negotiating the medical world!!
good luck,
claudia
I and others can't post numbers because I agreed not to. As part of my settlement agreement I agreed not to disclose the numbers, I agreed not to "advertise" my negative experience with my doctor, and my doctor did not admit any fault.
I didn't understand the "advertise" thing, as I was sure I would be hit with the "gag" order. Apparently, it was understood by all parties that I am involved with organizations like this one and that I have never used my doctor's name. The advertise thing means I can talk in public about my experiences but I can't ever mention the doctor's name. Again, I never would.
Not admitting fault is also standard, though difficult to read. It is a trade off, he gets to "say" he didn't do anything wrong, and Juliana gets to win the lawsuit. I think he knows he did a lot wrong and he has to deal with that however he does. Or maybe he is so arrogant that he thinks I am wrong. Whatever.
So, in an odd turn of events, I posted here under my name while we were suing, but I can't give you the specifics of our lawsuit.
I agree that this is a touchy issue, but I think it is good to bring some of it out in the forefront. I think negotiating the legal world is, in its own way, as difficult as negotiating the medical world!!
good luck,
claudia
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Re: Settlement vs Trial
Thanks Claudia!!!
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Re: Settlement vs Trial
Patty, Claudia, Guest and Pamela plus those that I have talked to privately. I greatly appreciate all your "words of wisdom" and can not begin to tell you how much you have helped us. You told me things that I had no idea about, nor did I even know that such things even existed.They have been further researched and will be discussed with the professionals.Thank you so very much, for not only sharing but also for caring. I hope that this and other similar legal discussions will continue.
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Re: Settlement vs Trial
So if a settlement happens, the doctor has nothing on their record and is free to injure more babies, and if it goes to jury the doctor usually wins anyway. Doesn't seem much like justice to me....
Re: Settlement vs Trial
Dear Guest:
These are civil proceedings, not criminal, so the idea of "justice" is an interesting one. Do you mean "closure"?
I have a theory on closure...but if it is that the docs get to keep doing this, well, right now it is up to other docs to police them. When more doctors decide to step up to the plate and turn in doctors who are injuring people, fewer poor doctors will be in business. If and when we ever get a NATIONAL registry and/or certification, we can keep track of doctors who hurt people.
If the docs lose their malpractice insurance or if a hospital gets fed up with a doctor...things can change.
As for closure, look for it from within. Nothing can change what has occurred. So closure, in my opinion, comes from accepting the situation and doing your best to improve it.
So, then, why did we sue? Well, it wasn't an easy decision (this guy had been my ob/gyn for 17 years), but we decided that my daughter should not have to worry about whether she can afford to treat her disability. And, because I hoped that if he lost his priveledges or his insurance, maybe he would stop practicing.
Good luck,
claudia
These are civil proceedings, not criminal, so the idea of "justice" is an interesting one. Do you mean "closure"?
I have a theory on closure...but if it is that the docs get to keep doing this, well, right now it is up to other docs to police them. When more doctors decide to step up to the plate and turn in doctors who are injuring people, fewer poor doctors will be in business. If and when we ever get a NATIONAL registry and/or certification, we can keep track of doctors who hurt people.
If the docs lose their malpractice insurance or if a hospital gets fed up with a doctor...things can change.
As for closure, look for it from within. Nothing can change what has occurred. So closure, in my opinion, comes from accepting the situation and doing your best to improve it.
So, then, why did we sue? Well, it wasn't an easy decision (this guy had been my ob/gyn for 17 years), but we decided that my daughter should not have to worry about whether she can afford to treat her disability. And, because I hoped that if he lost his priveledges or his insurance, maybe he would stop practicing.
Good luck,
claudia