about to ditch E-stem

[crystal]

I don't know what to do. Jade hates it. we do it every night while she is asleep. its only been a week since we started and Chris and i want to stop.If she sees the pack she starts screaming! then to get the tabs on takes so long on a screaming kid. we have tried books, stickers everything. but the worse part is getting them off. her skin is really red. plus they slide around until they get warm half through the night then they stick too well.she wore them all day for a couple of days becouse i didn't want to pull them off. If anybody has ideas id love it. can you do it less? is there differnt machine that we could do a couple times a week. Is it normal for the wrist to get worse during tess ( we are working on wrist with tess).plus the night terrors have started as of last night. we got rid o f them for 4 months and there back. with both surgeries she had night terrors for months. it seems weird that to say that estim isn't the reason since it the only that has changed in her life lately. well thanks for lisiening

[TNT1999]

Hi, Crystal. So sorry that this is such a difficult experience for you all esp. for Jade. As far as "technical" advice, we always had to use tape to hold the electrodes down. Nexcare by 3M has some really good tapes and we've experimented with several and found the "Ultra Comfortable" tape to work the best for us. Also, we dog ear the corner so it's easier to remove. I never left them on. Are you using the carbon or foam electrodes? The carbon ones worked better for us. (I'm talking in the past tense b/c we're on hold with it right now while Nicole's in the Caps splint at night still.) It's never been hard to remove the electrode in the morning, but there has been difficulty removing some of the tape. Another thing is that we would store them in the fridge, but would remove them (about an hour?) prior to putting them on so that they would be warmed up to room temp. before adhering them to Nicole. We've also tried the TAC gel to increase the life of the electrodes when they don't stick as well anymore, but that's quite an ordeal too -- putting it on and removing it (you need to wash their skin with a warm cloth) plus we still needed to tape them too. Are you using the machine from Mayatek?

You mentioned leaving the electrodes on for a couple of days. Had you removed the wires? I ask b/c it's best to remove the wires AFTER the electrodes have been removed and on the same line of thought to put the wires into the electrodes BEFORE adhering the electrodes. If you're removing the wires while the electrodes are still on her back, that could be making it more uncomfortable during the process. Of course, that all applies to the carbon electrodes only b/c with the foam electrodes, you can put the wires in and take them out at any point.

As far as frequency, we were told to do it 5-7 nights, least 5 nights, per week. I don't know, but if you use it less frequently, it might not really do anything.

Now, with all that said, I know you have to find your own answer. Please pray for wisdom to make the right decision. Remember that as parents, we know our children best and are in the best position to treat their whole bodies and not just their arms. How about if you try taking a break and re-introducing it from time to time at different points in Jade's development? It sounds like you're probably pretty stressed about it already and that's not going to make it any easier.

As far as the wrist getting worse, I haven't heard of that (but not saying it's not possible), but I can't imagine TES having any noticeable impact one way or the other in just one week.

Well, I hope this helps. I hope you can all work it out and that Jade sleeps well again soon.

-Tina )

[crystal]

THank you Tina. going to talk to the "estem guy" in Austin tommaroo. Our PT today said that Jade has an amazing aspect for her own space. we are getting in her space. I think we are useing foam ones. i put the pads on with the electrods. then i take off the elctrods in the morning.

[admin]

hi crystal we had to bag the estim too. marlin just would not keep it on. she would pull and damage the wires almost every day, now we just do it at ot three times a week

[browning93]

Hi, Crystal. My daughter Michaela has been using TES at night since she was 2 1/2 and she's now 5. It's always been her "Tickle Machine". Our therapists told us the same as Tina, the e-stim must be done all night for at least 5 nights a week for it to be effective. As for the electrodes, we tried the white foam ones and we didn't like them as well as the black carbon ones. Michaela cannot stand any tape, so we use a product called Co-ban or the same thing made for vets called Co-Flex. The Co-Flex is cheaper, comes in different colors,and it's the exact same product.Petsmart carries it in two inch widths and any Vet supplier or feed store should carry the 4 inch width. Walmart carries Johnson and johnson brand as hurt free tape but ALOT more expensive. This was designed originally for animals because it sticks to itself but not to fur or skin. We just wrap it around a couple of times over the electrodes and they stay in place all night. Also unlike tape, the co-flex is reuseable for several times,just take off and reroll on the original roll.Michaela likes the pink and purple.Also, have your therapists check the settings your using. If your child is in pain then turn the settings down. TES should NOT cause pain and you can run it on as low as 2 and still get results. If your child flinches or you can see the muscle twitch or contract then it's set too high.
Another tip for during potty training,as i learned this the hard way, is to put the TES machine in a ziplock bag before you put it in the fanny pack. Then if there's an accident the machine won't get ruined. Don't shut the bag all the way so the wires can hang out, but wrap around the machine. This will give it enough protection.Of course I'm assuming your using a fanny pack.We found cheap kids ones at the one dollar store that worked great. Just wrap around the waist and we're off to bed.Hope some of these tips help! LeeAnne

[TNT1999]

Hi, LeeAnne. Thanks for the great tips. We also used coban sometimes, forgot to mention -- my memory fades too quickly. We usually use that on the arm electrodes and tape on the ones that are on Nicole's back. I never heard of the co-flex though. Sounds like a great idea and the colors should go over nicely. I love the baggy idea b/c I've worried about that myself. We too use a fanny pack -- one handmade by "Aunt Franny." Don't know if she's back around to making them yet or not. Have you ever seen her estim page? Lots of great info. I think the link is http://www.injurednewborn.com/maia/estim.html (if that doesn't work, just go to ...maia/homepage.html and look for the estim link. Good point about the settings too -- so far, we've only had it at 2. Thanks again for all the great info! -Tina

[m&mmom]

I'm just starting to learn about e-stim, but what I get out of it so far is that it it supposed to stimulate oxygen and blood flow??? If that's the case maybe you could look into acupuncture as an alternative. If estim was ever recommended I would wonder how my son would react to being hooked up to wires for about 11 hours a night. Anyway just a thought to consider.
I konw that night terrors are hard to deal with. My daughter just got through a battle with them. Good luck.

[Georgeann P]

We just started E-stem too. Sorry to hear you are having problems. How old is Jade? Nicholas is 14 months old so I think it might be easier for him to adjust to our new "routine". The only problem we are having is when it is time to take the electrodes off in the morning. He cries in pain! THERE HAS TO BE AN EASIER WAY TO TAKE THEM OFF! We are using the foam ones now and they are staying on without any tape but my question is are the Carbon ones easier to remove? I am looking for the least painful way to remove them. I have read Fran site already and tried to remove the skin from the electrode but he is so wiggly it is impossible.