Myotrac for use in BPI
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F-Litz
- Posts: 970
- Joined: Fri May 26, 2006 6:53 pm
- Injury Description, Date, extent, surgical intervention etc: LOBPI, LTBPI at age 6.5, Sensory Issues, CP, Diaphragm Weakness, Aspberger's
- Location: Ambler, PA
Re: Myotrac for use in BPI
Kate - would it be beneficial for Kath to use NMES on the biceps now (elbow down?). Would that bring it up to strength faster?
Re: Myotrac for use in BPI
Francine,
I really don't think so. Frankly, from everything I've seen and read (and remember I actually made a living for 5 years, designing, building and clincally testing implantable muscle and nerve stimulators) e-stim is just very poor at strengthening muscle. I won't say never, but it doesn't do nearly what you would expect.
Think of the e-stim as hooking up an external battery to a toy. Sure, it will run the toy, but the minute you unplug the toy if the toy's battery is dead, it's still dead. That internal battery is the ability of the brain, through the spinal cord, to send actual chemicals and compounds which are released by the nerve at the point where it connects to the muscle and makes it contract.
You can contract the muscle purely through applying electricity, but the muscle quickly fatigues without these "neuromuscular factors". You can even induce the nerve to release them, by e-stimming the nerve or "motorpoint"... but e-stim does not stimulate the increased production of these necessary components. It doesn't increase the ability of the brain to control the muscle. It doesn't induce the brain to increase the amount of brain activity devoted to the muscle.
I think the way e-stim has worked is to provide a form of biofeedback to help the brain "notice" the muscle. When you stimulate a nerve, a signal goes both down to the muscle and back to the brain. I think that IF e-stim works and the effects persist after you stop using it (which they usually do not) it is only because it helped the brain "discover" the muscle and take over some conscious control. I also agree that "working" the muscle can increase blood flow which can also aid the growth of the muscle, but eventually the nerves and the brain just need to be induced to step up and pay attention to the muscle.
I think biofeedback through sEMG is a much quicker and more effective way to get the brain to reconnect with a muscle which has gone AWOL. In all my experience with estim, and especially with supposedly highly "effective" and "precise" implantable nerve stimulators, I never got very excited about it for BPI. I am VERY excited about sEMG!
Kate
I really don't think so. Frankly, from everything I've seen and read (and remember I actually made a living for 5 years, designing, building and clincally testing implantable muscle and nerve stimulators) e-stim is just very poor at strengthening muscle. I won't say never, but it doesn't do nearly what you would expect.
Think of the e-stim as hooking up an external battery to a toy. Sure, it will run the toy, but the minute you unplug the toy if the toy's battery is dead, it's still dead. That internal battery is the ability of the brain, through the spinal cord, to send actual chemicals and compounds which are released by the nerve at the point where it connects to the muscle and makes it contract.
You can contract the muscle purely through applying electricity, but the muscle quickly fatigues without these "neuromuscular factors". You can even induce the nerve to release them, by e-stimming the nerve or "motorpoint"... but e-stim does not stimulate the increased production of these necessary components. It doesn't increase the ability of the brain to control the muscle. It doesn't induce the brain to increase the amount of brain activity devoted to the muscle.
I think the way e-stim has worked is to provide a form of biofeedback to help the brain "notice" the muscle. When you stimulate a nerve, a signal goes both down to the muscle and back to the brain. I think that IF e-stim works and the effects persist after you stop using it (which they usually do not) it is only because it helped the brain "discover" the muscle and take over some conscious control. I also agree that "working" the muscle can increase blood flow which can also aid the growth of the muscle, but eventually the nerves and the brain just need to be induced to step up and pay attention to the muscle.
I think biofeedback through sEMG is a much quicker and more effective way to get the brain to reconnect with a muscle which has gone AWOL. In all my experience with estim, and especially with supposedly highly "effective" and "precise" implantable nerve stimulators, I never got very excited about it for BPI. I am VERY excited about sEMG!
Kate
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Chris DeBraal
- Posts: 2
- Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2007 6:36 am
Re: Myotrac for use in BPI
kate, I think I messed up my first posting... so..
I contacted Dr. Kozin. I will be sending him a CD of Katie & her information from & CT scans, x-rays etc... We ordered a "machine". I am very ecited to get it. I will keep you informed of Katie's progress.
I contacted Dr. Kozin. I will be sending him a CD of Katie & her information from & CT scans, x-rays etc... We ordered a "machine". I am very ecited to get it. I will keep you informed of Katie's progress.
Re: Myotrac for use in BPI
How long is myotrac used for???? Mare
Re: Myotrac for use in BPI
The machines I have found all come with stim is that needed?
Re: Myotrac for use in BPI
Awesome, Chris! Please join us on the biofeedback board where we are all supporting each other and tracking the amazing work being done with this machine:
http://bpisemg.proboards102.com
Mare,
You should ask for the T4000 or comparable. Does the device you are looking at *have* the sEMG, and just estim also? I would not know what to tell you about working with it, but if you can just disable the estim part then maybe it would work.
If you ask what the model is, I can look at it.
Kate
http://bpisemg.proboards102.com
Mare,
You should ask for the T4000 or comparable. Does the device you are looking at *have* the sEMG, and just estim also? I would not know what to tell you about working with it, but if you can just disable the estim part then maybe it would work.
If you ask what the model is, I can look at it.
Kate
Re: Myotrac for use in BPI
Kate
its called the myotrac infiniti it has 2 channel semg and 2 channel stim I found it by typing rent a myotrac and it came up saying it was used for muscle re education it was myotrac.net mare
its called the myotrac infiniti it has 2 channel semg and 2 channel stim I found it by typing rent a myotrac and it came up saying it was used for muscle re education it was myotrac.net mare
Re: Myotrac for use in BPI
They will rent you a Myotrac Infinit for $55/month??? Are you sure? I thought the Current Medical Technlogies website had the plain old single-channel myotrac for $150/month rental, and that unit is only $500 new. A new Myotrac Infiniti is around $2500...
Kate
Kate
Re: Myotrac for use in BPI
Hi Kate
The current medical Tech is the site you gave me. On the site it says $150 a month but I called them and the customer service rep said $55 a month but a therapist or doctor must call or fax a script, that is for the old machine single channel no estim. The other site with the infiniti didn't list a rental price thats the one I found at myotrac.net I"m guessing the older unit is what is best since Frankie doesn't need the esim he has that machine and you said you don't use then at the same time. So about the confusion.
Mare
The current medical Tech is the site you gave me. On the site it says $150 a month but I called them and the customer service rep said $55 a month but a therapist or doctor must call or fax a script, that is for the old machine single channel no estim. The other site with the infiniti didn't list a rental price thats the one I found at myotrac.net I"m guessing the older unit is what is best since Frankie doesn't need the esim he has that machine and you said you don't use then at the same time. So about the confusion.
Mare
Re: Myotrac for use in BPI
Mare,
I would definitely spring for the single-channel at $55/month. I think that is plenty of feedback to wrap your brain around, at least at first! And a very good price.
I'm looking forward to hearing how it works for Frankie.
Kate
I would definitely spring for the single-channel at $55/month. I think that is plenty of feedback to wrap your brain around, at least at first! And a very good price.
I'm looking forward to hearing how it works for Frankie.
Kate