Sorry Claudia, I respect your sentiment, but I must pick you up on one small point, your comment which says;
" ALL BIRTH RELATED BPI ARE DUE TO SHOULDER DYSTOCIA"
In our group in the UK we have 9 children who were born by C section who have bpi which has been shown NOT to be due to positional lie difficulties, also we have two children who were born breech birth which has resulted in bilateral injuries - these are also not due to shoulder dystocia.
I realise why you posted what you posted, but it is important to remember that some children have obpi which is NOT due to SD
Karen Hillyer
Statistics
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Karen Hillyer
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Re: Statistics
Sorry - I also wanted to state that over here in the Uk the current thinking is that Shoulder dystocia occurs in approximately 1 in 200 live births and that BPI occurs in approximately 1 in 1500 live births.
So having a shoulder dystocia ( over here any way) does not automatically mean your baby will have a bpi
Karen
So having a shoulder dystocia ( over here any way) does not automatically mean your baby will have a bpi
Karen
Re: Statistics
Karen,
Just wondering if any of those people in your group have videos of their c-section or breech deliveries, or if they have anyone who clearly witnessed the delivery.
From my understanding and the specialists I have spoken with, yes, these cases are not related to shoulder dystocia (although it wouldn't surprise me if a breech delivery could be a backwards version of sd). However, I think it is important to clarify that they still almost always involve negligence and some type of excessive pull or traction on the part of the delivering physician, such as trying to pull a baby out of a c-section or breech delivery by the arm.
My specialist warned me about delivering c-section after the baby has engaged in the pelvis. It was explained to me that my baby could still end up with a BPI (actually a more serious, like Klumpke's BPI) if the baby's shoulders were stuck and the doctor started pulling on the arm to dislodge the baby.
I would be really interested in any of their stories. Would it be possible to find out if any of them have videos or clear recollections of the event? Or they could email me directly at mountainmusc@uneedspeed.net Maybe none of these things apply, and that would be interesting to know also, as we try to put the peices together.
Thank you very much!
Just wondering if any of those people in your group have videos of their c-section or breech deliveries, or if they have anyone who clearly witnessed the delivery.
From my understanding and the specialists I have spoken with, yes, these cases are not related to shoulder dystocia (although it wouldn't surprise me if a breech delivery could be a backwards version of sd). However, I think it is important to clarify that they still almost always involve negligence and some type of excessive pull or traction on the part of the delivering physician, such as trying to pull a baby out of a c-section or breech delivery by the arm.
My specialist warned me about delivering c-section after the baby has engaged in the pelvis. It was explained to me that my baby could still end up with a BPI (actually a more serious, like Klumpke's BPI) if the baby's shoulders were stuck and the doctor started pulling on the arm to dislodge the baby.
I would be really interested in any of their stories. Would it be possible to find out if any of them have videos or clear recollections of the event? Or they could email me directly at mountainmusc@uneedspeed.net Maybe none of these things apply, and that would be interesting to know also, as we try to put the peices together.
Thank you very much!
Re: Statistics
Karen:
Re-read the question the poster was asking. And, look at the way that person "rephrased" it. OBPI due to C-section is far rarer than due to vaginal delivery. Additionally, a breech birth is a rather dangerous way to delivery a baby (I know, my son was delivered this way-he was at risk for bi-lateral lower plexus injury).
What the poster is fishing for is an excuse to find some other reason for OBPI than injury during birth. And, there are rare cases of this. In your group there are 9 cases...I have heard of fewer here. None of the moms I have spoken to have had c-sections.
Additionally, I am well aware that there are many more SDs than there are OBPIs. My first born was SD with a broken collarbone, but no BPI. However, in this country, doctors are not always honest about reporting SD even when the outcome is a good one. That is, it was managed properly. Often, if it is managed properly, they just report a "normal, vaginal delivery." So, here in the States, you would be hard pressed to find proper statistics for the occurrance of SD.
claudia
Re-read the question the poster was asking. And, look at the way that person "rephrased" it. OBPI due to C-section is far rarer than due to vaginal delivery. Additionally, a breech birth is a rather dangerous way to delivery a baby (I know, my son was delivered this way-he was at risk for bi-lateral lower plexus injury).
What the poster is fishing for is an excuse to find some other reason for OBPI than injury during birth. And, there are rare cases of this. In your group there are 9 cases...I have heard of fewer here. None of the moms I have spoken to have had c-sections.
Additionally, I am well aware that there are many more SDs than there are OBPIs. My first born was SD with a broken collarbone, but no BPI. However, in this country, doctors are not always honest about reporting SD even when the outcome is a good one. That is, it was managed properly. Often, if it is managed properly, they just report a "normal, vaginal delivery." So, here in the States, you would be hard pressed to find proper statistics for the occurrance of SD.
claudia
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admin
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Re: Statistics
I am the original poster, and I must say that I resent the inferences made to why I wanted the information. I have a court case pending so I could not include my name. I have since found out the statistics on my own. What a shame that I really thought I could come here for help.
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Natalie M.
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Re: Statistics
My best friend's (we met when our little girls were 1 month old by our mutual therapist) little girl was born c-section and is bilateral obpi- she is severe!!
Her little arms arn't growing and her fingers are pretty much useless and her left arm is pretty much useless- even after 3 surgeries. Dr. Nath told her family that she is the worst case he has seen. Sad...
She is soooo cute and we love her dearly, she is the sweetest child and makes a room light up. Even though our heart aches for our own obpi child, we just get so emotional over Miss Lauren.
Her parents are having a hard time finding an attorney and having hopes for winning. Does anyone know of a successful lawsuit with a c-section case??
Her little arms arn't growing and her fingers are pretty much useless and her left arm is pretty much useless- even after 3 surgeries. Dr. Nath told her family that she is the worst case he has seen. Sad...
She is soooo cute and we love her dearly, she is the sweetest child and makes a room light up. Even though our heart aches for our own obpi child, we just get so emotional over Miss Lauren.
Her parents are having a hard time finding an attorney and having hopes for winning. Does anyone know of a successful lawsuit with a c-section case??
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Karen Hillyer
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Re: Statistics
Claudia
I know that bpi due to c section is much rarer than due to vaginal deliveries, but the fact is that it can and does happen. Breech delivery is a dangerous way to deliver a baby, but that happens too, I merely wished to comment on your statement that all birth related bpi's are due to SD
You say that the poster was fishing for an excuse to find some other reason for obpi than injury in birth, that is only your perception of their question - it may or may not be the reason for the question, but if the person asking is given incorrect information, then it could give them more opportunity to dismiss any information they glean from the boards. It is important to be as accurate as possible with information.
I am also interested that you say you have heard of fewer bpi's following a c section delivery than our group has - it doesn't mean there aren't more, you just haven't heard of them - possibly they may feel that the emphasis of this board is for those families who have a child with obpi following a vaginal delivery and that this board isn't relevent to them.
I totally agree that the vast majority of bpi's are as a result of clinical negligence and the number of cases being won in our country is a clear indication of that fact, but in order to help get that message across, I feel it is important to acknowledge the very few times that these cases happen with out SD, if only so we don't alienate the medical profession who we are trying to educate.
just my opinion.
I know that bpi due to c section is much rarer than due to vaginal deliveries, but the fact is that it can and does happen. Breech delivery is a dangerous way to deliver a baby, but that happens too, I merely wished to comment on your statement that all birth related bpi's are due to SD
You say that the poster was fishing for an excuse to find some other reason for obpi than injury in birth, that is only your perception of their question - it may or may not be the reason for the question, but if the person asking is given incorrect information, then it could give them more opportunity to dismiss any information they glean from the boards. It is important to be as accurate as possible with information.
I am also interested that you say you have heard of fewer bpi's following a c section delivery than our group has - it doesn't mean there aren't more, you just haven't heard of them - possibly they may feel that the emphasis of this board is for those families who have a child with obpi following a vaginal delivery and that this board isn't relevent to them.
I totally agree that the vast majority of bpi's are as a result of clinical negligence and the number of cases being won in our country is a clear indication of that fact, but in order to help get that message across, I feel it is important to acknowledge the very few times that these cases happen with out SD, if only so we don't alienate the medical profession who we are trying to educate.
just my opinion.
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Karen Hillyer
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Re: Statistics
Elisa
sadly videotaping births in this country is quite a rare occurrance and videotaping a c section would be unheard of in most hospitals so the chances of one of our members having footage of the delivery is slim to say the least!
Interestingly all of the children born by C section in our group were emergency c sections rather than elective ones, so your specialist may well be proven correct in his opinion about an emergency section being more likely to produce an injury when the baby's head has engaged in the pelvis.
Mostly breech deliveries in this country are delivered by elective c section these days, although of course there are a few premature babies who have not yet turned prior to delivery, who may be more at risk.
Our smallest baby in the group was such a baby, and he weighed in at 2lbs 8 ozs!
I will e mail you to discuss matters further !
Karen
sadly videotaping births in this country is quite a rare occurrance and videotaping a c section would be unheard of in most hospitals so the chances of one of our members having footage of the delivery is slim to say the least!
Interestingly all of the children born by C section in our group were emergency c sections rather than elective ones, so your specialist may well be proven correct in his opinion about an emergency section being more likely to produce an injury when the baby's head has engaged in the pelvis.
Mostly breech deliveries in this country are delivered by elective c section these days, although of course there are a few premature babies who have not yet turned prior to delivery, who may be more at risk.
Our smallest baby in the group was such a baby, and he weighed in at 2lbs 8 ozs!
I will e mail you to discuss matters further !
Karen
Re: Statistics
Sure would be nice if someone was collecting data (or required to) about such things as the possible correlation with emergency c-sections and injury. Were all these babies already engaged in the pelvis? Maybe there are peices to the puzzle that can help us solve these questions or lies once and for all. Just frustrates me that we aren't really trying to learn more. It is all about the doctors, and nothing about these precious babies!
Got your email. Thanks. Just emailed you back.
Elisa
Got your email. Thanks. Just emailed you back.
Elisa
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Kath
- Posts: 3242
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- Injury Description, Date, extent, surgical intervention etc: I am ROBPI, global injury, Horner's Syndrome. No surgery but PT started at 2 weeks old under the direction of New York Hospital. I wore a brace 24/7 for the first 11 months of my life. I've never let my injury be used as an excuse not to do something. I've approach all things, in life, as a challenge. I approach anything new wondering if I can do it. I tried so many things I might never have tried, if I were not obpi. Being OBPI has made me strong, creative, more determined and persistent. I believe that being obpi has given me a very strong sense of humor and compassion for others.
- Location: New York
Re: Statistics
I have been researching the obpi statistics for the past few months. I have contacted various Government Health agencies. They have all been most helpful and have refered me to other agencies that could help.... but no one knows who keeps the records!!! Because there are no records being kept on obpi.
I began to research because someone posted information from a Malpractice Insurance site and I noticed was that the statistics did not jive...
I contacted the CDC, National Institute of Health, NY Health department... National Institute of Neurological Disorders... I got the same answer from all of them... they refered me to birth defects or deformity... when I contacted those branches they said " bpi is not a birth defect it is an injury and we don't not cover that area"... so I started from square one again...
This is a very frustrating task, ... If a baby is injured during the birthing process and no one is required to report it to any agency - - that means there really are no accurate records covering this birth injury, except the ones kept by those doing repair work or the malpractice insurance cases... We have fallen through the cracks and it is up to us to get counted properly.
I am still trying to find a place that is responsible for tracking this birth injury and keeping this information...
If we are not counted how can anyone hope to lower the statistics????????
I just received another answer from a government agency this AM telling me to contact my state... it is like wandering through a maze.
I am now beginning to wonder if the statistics are not higher then we think????
As far as records stating SD or not... if the child is injured does it make any real difference... it could just be a matter that someone forgot to write the reason down... does that me I was not injured??? my Mom told me no one put the time of my birth down because there was too much confusion in the delivery room... I wonder if I could have gotten my records what it would have said...
Kath
I began to research because someone posted information from a Malpractice Insurance site and I noticed was that the statistics did not jive...
I contacted the CDC, National Institute of Health, NY Health department... National Institute of Neurological Disorders... I got the same answer from all of them... they refered me to birth defects or deformity... when I contacted those branches they said " bpi is not a birth defect it is an injury and we don't not cover that area"... so I started from square one again...
This is a very frustrating task, ... If a baby is injured during the birthing process and no one is required to report it to any agency - - that means there really are no accurate records covering this birth injury, except the ones kept by those doing repair work or the malpractice insurance cases... We have fallen through the cracks and it is up to us to get counted properly.
I am still trying to find a place that is responsible for tracking this birth injury and keeping this information...
If we are not counted how can anyone hope to lower the statistics????????
I just received another answer from a government agency this AM telling me to contact my state... it is like wandering through a maze.
I am now beginning to wonder if the statistics are not higher then we think????
As far as records stating SD or not... if the child is injured does it make any real difference... it could just be a matter that someone forgot to write the reason down... does that me I was not injured??? my Mom told me no one put the time of my birth down because there was too much confusion in the delivery room... I wonder if I could have gotten my records what it would have said...
Kath
Kath robpi/adult
Kathleen Mallozzi
Kathleen Mallozzi