How can one honestly determine, in advance,....

[francine]

if the doctor or midwife chosen for a birth is the right person?

I am asking this question because I am formulating a strategy to educate women about the risk factors, etc.
What I want to tell them is to check on their doctor or midwife - to see what their history includes. But how does one realistically do that...

especially when doctors and midwives are practicing under different corporate names...

especially when they move from state to state to avoid being found out...

especially if one's particular state is not included in the public record information on line....

I have told women to ask L&D nurses who they would use because they are right there experiencing and witnessing... but unless you know someone at the hospital, how do you do that?

So, I figure if a person brought the list of questions that I have on injurednewborn.com and asked the doctor all the questions and opened up the conversation that would be helpful. Well how would they know that they are being told the truth? I don't believe that any doctor is going to readily tell you that he's injured 20 kids and 17 of them were temporary injuries and he's been sued for 3 of them.

I asked an expert witness for these cases about this and he said that if one had shoulder dystocia in their history, then the way to find an "expert" would be to go to someone who has published about it. But on the other side (on the bpi side) I can say that the doctors I know and trust the most aren't doing much publishing and the doctors who I have seen who I don't respect at all ARE doing publishing - so that means nothing to me.

So I need your input on this.... I hope that women who have had subsequent births can give me their input as well.

This year's goal for myself is to work on this campaign of prevention. I'm going to spend time communicating the "message" to online birthing sites. I have done this all along here and there but I really want to concentrate on this much more than I have. Anyone want to join?

[admin]

I'm still trying to figure this one out too. I've gone to three different ob/gyn's since leaving my dr. I've asked the questions from your site to all of the drs. The first dr. didn't directly answer much and seemed pretty nervous about the whole possibility of a SD. I would'nt be surprised if she's caused some bpi's based on her vague replies. So, onto the next dr. Well, he did answer me honestly and told me that he had injured 2-3 (don't remember offhand) babies, but that they'd completely recovered within 6 months (something to that effect). I didn't believe that they'd actually recovered because if it took 6 months, then I'm quite certain that there will still be some permanent injury ongoing. Of course, he could've sincerely believed that the children's injuries had healed, I don't know, but I wasn't comfortable going back to him at that point. Onto dr. #3, this dr. told me that she did have one SD that resulted in a bpi, but that thankfully the baby recovered within a couple of weeks (if I recall correctly).

So, I'm at the point that I don't know if I'm even going to find a dr. around here who hasn't actually caused a bpi. Plus, there are so many other concerns besides bpi's. So, what's the likelihood that I'm going to find the "perfect" dr. that I'm looking for?? Not too likely in my opinion. Will I continue to look for other drs? Probably, but I'm just going to stay where I am right now until another baby is on the way -- one step at a time. I really liked my original dr. and am upset that I even have to go through this, but even if we weren't in litigation, I know I could'nt stay with him after what happened. I don't know if I can have any dr. deliver a baby of mine if I know that they've had a SD that resulted in a bpi. They've all guaranteed a c/s the next time around, but I still don't know if I could have them do the delivery when I think about the injured child walking around with a possibly permanent injury. Am I asking too much to find a good dr who hasn't had any bpi's???

I don't know if I was any help, but I think that what you're doing is great and I hope you find a way to get some good input. By the way, the dr. who delivered my baby with the bpi came recommended to me from someone who did work in L&D and is someone who I trust dearly. So, even if they have a good history, you never know. I have found 2 of the 3 drs. who I've consulted with to be honest at least to the extent that the bpi's did occur.

[claudia]

Well Francine, this is an interesting question.
I don't know how we know about the docs. The practice I used (once 3 docs, 2 when I delivered Juliana),had my complete trust. My first child was born with a broken collar bone. No one told me WHY she had a broken collar bone. So I had no ablility to connect the dots. I wish I had known the risk factors. I still believe that educating the prospective moms and dads is the way to go. They can open a dialogue with their doctor, but that doesn't mean they can decide if their doctor is going to do these things in the heat of the moment.
I KNOW that things would have been different if I had known that I was at risk. Doctors always tell you that each pregnancy is different. But I was the same woman and Frank was the same man--some things have got to be the same!
claudia

[Alice--Josh'smom]

This is a very good question francine. My first child had SD and a broken collar bone the drs couldnt tell me why so I changed practice. My 2nd child I choose the practice very well and went with a women dr, thinking she would be more understanding. I told them all the problems I had w/ the first and they said they would "keep an eye" on me. They also said to me "all deliveries are different" and and played down the 1st delivery, I trusted them....I had the same problems, SD, broken collar bone but with the 2nd my son Josh received the BPI. My third child I changed practices and hospitals and DEMANDED a c-section---I got exactly what I wanted. If I would have known the warning signs with my 2nd I could have demanded a csection too. Educating the parents is a good thing.

[Lenni]

Well, that is a tough question Francine. My first daughter was my OBPI, and I had absolutely no knowledge of OBPI, it's risks, or it's concequences! I was familiar with SD but understood that was an injury which would heal and not cause further problems. With my second daughter I had my regular GP saying he would deliver her the right way, with no difficulties, and my gynecologist saying no way, you either have a c section or you go to a major city and try to find a doctor willing to deliver the baby !! The OBGYN also told me that the chances of SD happening in subsequent births increases!

Having said all that, I would have to say that we need to educate prospective parents, so that they may have the knowledge to make the right decision for themselves and find a Doctor who supports that decision. Knowledge is power, without you are helpless.

Educate, educate and educate! I would love to help out Francine, let me know what you need!

Lenni

[francine]

So as a start - how about if we come up with a list of RED FLAGs and why.

I think that the list of questions on injurednewborn is good - but it's only a start. I believe that we have to take the risk factors and fully explain why these particular risk factors ARE risk factors.

I know that some of you are experts in gestational diabetes - how the tests should be done - why, etc. I'm hoping that whoever you guys are (I have since forgotten who you are) will come forward and fully explain the testing.

I also think that I will write up a letter for some OBGYNs who are considered experts and see if they can help us.

I appreciate everyone's positive response so far.

-francine

[francine]

I didn't explain red flags.... in my situation there were red flags at my birthing practitioners practice that I should have noticed and truly questioned. Why didin't I ? Because I trusted them AND they TOLD ME to trust them.

For example - there was no working scale that could handle an obese woman... when maternal weight gain is a risk factor - this is a RED FLAG I should have noticed and questioned. Understand?

So red flags are NOT the risk factors... RED FLAGS are things that we can take note of in the practice itself to notice that things are not right.

About asking L&D nurses, I guess if a woman is pregnant - she can visit an L&D department and ask the nurses at that point.... in the context of going on a tour or whatever...

[christy]

No good asking the nursing staff at work francine. Their answers may be in conflict with their jobs or at least perceived to be so. I think one would get ambiguous answers there...if you know of a nurse however that works at a facility and have her ask around the l&d department one may stand a better chance at an honest reply.

[admin]

My 1st child was a BPI. My 2nd child's OB (different one) was very honest with me. She had 3 BPI cases. she was also very willing to do a c-section. I trusted her....

[admin]

Medicated births-one of the BIGGEST risk factors. If your birth carer discusses options such as epidural, induction, ventouse WITHOUT mentioning the serious risks to both mother and baby with all of all these, that's a huge red flag.