Vaccinations...

[kksmommy]

Let me know if you find any non-biased info...I don't trust the CDC because they have a lot of backing from money hungry pharm. companies. I can't trust studies from the extreme anti-vaxers because it is so easy to manipulate statistics to show what you want it to. Plus they usually include many other reactions that are treatable and can be caused by other things (i.e. high fevers, rashes) I want to see #'s on irreversible reactions (autism). I am particularly interested in seeing Australian studies. I have heard that they recently started vaxing later and autism rates have shown a decline. Curious too about the dramatic difference of autism in boys. I have some good info and resources to start with...email me if you want to discuss...kaylasmommy1210@gmail.com
Ashley, Kayla's Mom, 1 yr, ROBPI

[claudia]

kayla's mom:
i'm interested in sites that discuss gardisill (the cervical cancer vaccine). i have teenage daughters and am getting a lot of pressure to vaccinate, but i really don't want to. i'd love to read something to support my feeling that this not necessary or at least it is worth waiting on.

thanks,
claudia

[kksmommy]

claudia,
I found this site: http://www.areavoices.com/freqwrong/?ar ... 07-02.(its about 1/2 down) I just skimmed it but it looks like a good start. The thing that I find most unsettling about this vax is that the trials were cut short and the product hasn't been out for very long. Pushing it on so many people so soon is a poor decision and one made with profit in mind.
I like the idea of a vax to prevent SOME types of cervical cancer but I would not be willing to put my preteen non sexually active dd risk for side effects. Curious to hear what your thoughts are after reading the article...

[katep]

Regarding the areavoices site.

There are a number of things brought up on this site as "alarms" specific to Guardasil (relating primarily to reproductive impact of the vaccine) when truly, these are standard problems with any drug approval. Merck is not "so unsure" about the pregnancy impact of the vaccine. NO clinical trial EVER gives a reasonable amount of information about a drug and its impact on pregnancy.

Basically the problem with any drug and any vaccine is that affects on reproductivity and especially pregnancy and newborn health just cannot be known until a large number of women take the drug (either "accidentally" or against the advice of their doctor) during pregnancy, or get pregnant after vaccination, and report side effects.

So Facts 3 and 4 on the blog, while they look alarming, are absolutely nothing special in the area of drug approval. This is information that practically never comes out of clinical trials, but only after a drug has been on the market for a very long time. Look at it this way... is it ethical to trial a drug on a pregnant woman or infant on purpose? Whenever a manufacturer is evaluating the safety of a drug, they deliberately exclude pregnant women. The women in this study actually had a pregnancy test before each vaccination and the vaccination was not done if they were pregnant. The few who did become pregnant during the study were followed to see what happened, but these clinicians (just like every clinical study) excluded pregnant women.

So what I'm saying is that the effects of EVERY SINGLE drug and vaccine out there on pregnancy are only known through post-market registries like Merck's "Pregnancy Register". The fact that they have a pregnancy register, or that the vaccine is listed as pregnancy category B is not at all surprising and should not be alarming, except as a reminder that the effects of drugs on pregnancy are rarely known very early on with any drug. It is simply not ethical to try to prove the safety of a drug on a pregnant woman deliberately. A drug has to be around long enough, and enough women report taking it during pregnancy (either by accident or against warning labels) without any adverse effects (or with a lot of adverse effects) before it gets out of "pregnancy category B" (which really just means: we don't know and we aren't going to find out anytime soon).

Kate

[jordan1]

I will def e-mail you on the weekend because i am very interested in learning more on these vaccinations.

[Tanya in NY]

On the subject of Gardasil...there's an interesting article that one of the midwives that I work with gave me to look at while at work. It's from the May-June 2007 "Mothering" magaine and the article is called "Guard Against Gardasil" by Elissa Mendenhall. Thus far, I've only had one patient request it postpartum since it has been available, and there is always the controversy of insurance coverage since it is so expensive and many of our patients have PCAP which will run out before the other 2 injections are to be given.

We delayed some of Amber's shots once she became one year old and started doing one shot at a time. We separated her MMR into a singe measles, single rubella, and single mumps shot 3 months apart which our pediatrician had no issues with. We do not do the flu shot (myself included even though I am a nurse). At Amber's yearly physical today, the pediatrician informed me that now the CDC is recommending that the varicella vaccine be 2 doses rather than just one for children less than age 12 (it used to be 2 doses for those 12 and older only) because mild cases of chicken pox are still breaking out because immunity is not building up with one dose. Well, I could have predicted that for goodness sake. I never had a good feeling about the varicella vaccine. I even considered just writing it in on Amber's immunization card and handing it to the school instead of actually giving it to her for preschool! Well, because it is not REQUIRED to give that 2nd dose, I'm not giving it! What a bunch on loony business!

Sometimes at work at discharge of a patient, I can give a patient up to 5 shots (Rhogam, Tetanus w/ pertussis, Rubella if she is negative, Flu shot, and now Gardasil if she requests it). It is ridiculous.

My nurse manager keeps insisting that instead of tetanus boosters every 10 years we as nurses now get tetanus and pertussis vaccines for a booster every 2 years since we work around infants who are less than 12 months of age, but I am refusing because I feel that is too much and too often to be putting into my body. If I were to develop pertussis, then I would recognize the symptoms and not come to work. And lets face it...tetanus rarely affects people nowadays and if I stepped on a rusty nail I'd get a booster again.

I'll step off my soap box now. Sorry.

Tanya in NY
Amber's Mom, ROBPI, 5 years old

[claudia]

Tanya:
You can stand on that soap box anytime you like.

My older three kids got the chicken pox. Isabel and Andrew got it from some kid in the 2's and generously passed it on (20 days later) to their older sister! I was thrilled!!! Yes, it was six weeks that I don't really recall (our minds are wonderful at forgetting pain...), but I knew that my girls especially were going to have their immunity. Plus, all three kids had strong cases of chicken pox and I knew they were covered.

I did not get the chicken pox until I was 25 years old. I had been exposed throughout my childhood (went to school with everyone else!) but never got it. When I was 25 my sister came to visit from OH and brought her 3 kids. I walked into my folks house and my niece came up to me and said "look aunt claudie, i got the chicken pox!" Ahem, 21 days later I had the chicken pox, a fever of over 104 and was in bed for a week. I was out of work for close to 3 weeks. Not fun.

Juliana, unfortunately, had to have the vaccine. She had been vaccinated for everything else. When I protested to me peds, they said that it would have been okay if I had chosen to NOT vaccinate from the start, but to claim anti-vaccination now...the school district (especially the ones around here) would give me an unnaturally hard time. I gave in, and am still sorry I did. Ultimately, i don'tthink it did her any real harm, but I don't think she is protected at all. And, at least 1/3 of the kids who get the vaccine around here also get the pox.

So, back to our new friend Gardasil.... I have two teenaged daughters (13 and 15). I am very nervous about this vaccine. I did vaccinate against Meningitis, as my kids go to sleepaway camp for 7 weeks every summer. I believe in vaccines. We would still have people dying and disabled from Polio if it were not for the vaccine. However, I think things have gotten way out of hand. I am definately going to wait on this one. Even my 15 year old told me that she doesn't want it. "What do they know about its long term effects?" She asked me. gotta love her for that!

Tanya, I'd love to read that article.

claudia


Message was edited by: claudia

[Kath]

This is a very interesting and important conversation.
I am 68 and ROBPI, my mother did not believe in vaccinations and was fearful of them. She was talked in to letting me have the Whopping Cough vaccine when I was two. As she feared I had a terrible case of whopping cough. The only reason she did it was because I had so man problems with colds and pneumonia etc... I have c4 injury so my diaphragm is effected. At 9 years of age I caught a cold in June and was sick until December. In the middle of all of this I had 9 weeks of Whopping cough for the SECOND time. I also became allergic to penicillin during these months because I had pleurisy in between Croup bouts... Needless to say my Mother felt justified in not allowing the Polio vaccine ( I believe it was live when I was a kid). I never had measles, mumps or chicken pox and a few years ago had shingles. This means at some point I must have had a very mild case of chicken pox. I was exposed to it so many times and waited to see if I would get it and did not. All three of my children had chicken pox and one of the girls had about 10 pox on her belly and that was it. It seems to me the kid are getting so many vaccines that we as parent need to really make educated decisions before we just accept any doctors advice. I really think it should be a personal decision.
My family doctor had a fit when he found out I never had a tetanus shot or Polio vaccine. I've still never had a tetanus shot. But my children were younger and he insisted I get the oral Polio vaccine.

My oldest child had cow pox's after getting her smallpox vaccine. Because she was so very sick our Pediatrician said that none of my children would ever have to get it. Our Pediatrician sent a note to the school, stating he would not vaccinate my other two children. They had most of their shots and I guess I was so naive and trusting in my pediatrician that I did not fight it. I would today.

My daughter has had several debates with her pediatricians because she has refused to allow the Gardasil injection for my 13 year old granddaughter. I think she is making the right decision. We have no way of know how this will effect the girls in the future. It is a new drug with a large publicity campaign and that in it self is scary.

Don't know if it's true or not but someone just told me that a few States are going to REQUIRE girls to get this vaccine.

Drugs and I don't do well at all. I just took antibiotics for the first time in several years and have been sick as a dog. The side effects of Cipro required more rounds of antibiotics and then another round to get rid of the problems the first two antibiotics caused. As you can tell I am very anti drugs... LOL...

Kath robpi/adult